"That they (the older women) admonish the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." Titus 2:4-5

Thursday, October 2, 2008

Birthcontrol- Part 3/ Wednesday Wifehood

Wondering how we got started on this discussion? You can go to the beginning of it here.

Ok. Sorry it took so long, I haven't forgotten or ignored your question. It's been a busy few days because of my birthday (tons of family stuff) and then my car decided to finally kick the bucket the other night.... at 9:30 PM.... in the middle of no where. Well, 10 minutes from my parents house.

I had to call them, my dad and brother came out, all three of them (my husband too) were out there looking under the hood, under the car, trying this and that while I sat in the car feeding my daughter cheerios so she wouldn't have a complete melt down. Then it wouldn't go anywhere and my dad and brother were talking about a trailer and chains and pushing and oh boy! Any way, thankfully my husband got it to work (not well) long enough to get it to my parents house, where we spent the night, went to bed around midnight to get up at 6 so my mom could drop us off at home on her way to work and now I'm spending way too long on a VERY slow ebay trying to find a decent car we can afford and praying for God to bless this ugly situation somehow..... ANYWAY... :) The fun of life and learning to trust God!

Qusetions: What leads your husband to believe the story of Onan has anything to do with birth control? Given that children are a blessing, and that Jesus should have lordship over our lives, what about those principles leads you to believe birth control is inappropriate?

Answers: I talked to my husband after that post and even I learned more about why we don't use birth control. LoL. Good to review I guess. He said that he doesn't fully go along with the Onan story being about birth control, just that someone had thrown it out to him. (Clarified for me!) The principle there is pleasure without responsibility (which I can see) and that the idea of the story is about not taking responsibility. Any, my husband said that it's shaky ground to site that story and that it's not his main reasoning.

Now I'm trying to remember what all he said! LoL. Bear with me. My husband said that a big part of it has to do with giving God control of your life (as earlier discussed). As Christians, when we choose to follow Christ, we lay our lives down and take up our cross to follow Him. Even though we believe we've laid it all down when we get saved, in reality there's often areas of our lives that we haven't given up yet-we just aren't aware of it. The key is to stay sensitive to the spirit and continually check your actions and attitudes. My husband says that sometimes "God puts His finger on something" meaning He wants us to get rid of it or give it to Him. Easy example: we are constantly going through our movie collection. There's often movies in there that were once allowable to us, but God revealed to us that it either became an idol or was simply not right in the first place. By staying sensitive to the spirit of God, we have an active, growing relationship with God and we grow continually as Christians.

The same idea applies to all aspects of our lives. My husband and I were going to do "natural" birth control, but "God put His finger on it" and told us to give it to Him. So we did. We took another step towards giving God complete control of our lives. If you think about it really, God is the one who opens and closes the womb. I've known several couples who desperately want a child, but can't for several years and then suddenly get pregnant one day. I also know several who were using "birth control" and still got a surprise. I guess it's just knowing and recognizing that God's ultimately in control anyway and not fighting it.

My husband also says that using birth control is bondage. It's not the natural course of things and is often frustrating or sometimes can be harmful (pills!) Instead of living in the bondage of worry, frustration and possible damage to your body, we live in the bondage (freedom!) of Christ. We are bound to His will and desires for us and we experience liberty and freedom and don't have to worry about the outcome. He'll take care of us.

Lastly, we view birth control as part of the world system. Our society today says we're irresponsible if we don't use it and condemn ourselves to poverty and put our children at risk of growing up poor. As Christians we aren't supposed to be a part of the world system and do everything our society says we should. It's one of the things that sets us apart as Christians-many of the things we do go against the flow of society. Christ said they hated Him and would hate us too. I often question "Christians" that get along well with the world. Often times it takes compromising to get along with the world. Our society views children as a nuisance that need to be controlled (even to the point of abortion!) and that our lives/career paths/selfish desires need to come first. Because after all, don't you deserve it?

I'm not totally opposed to birth control-if God tells you to use it. I'm not sure if He does tell people to or not-haven't experienced that yet. But I do know it grieves my heart when I hear Christians saying "After we've been married 2 years, we'll have 2.5 children 2 years apart and then I'm done. No more." I just want to ask them where God is in all of their plans. They'll pray to Him to bless them with a new house/car/etc but don't want to involve Him in any of their plans for their lives. I could be wrong, but this seems pretty selfish. Jesus gave up His life for us to the point of death and we can't even give our plans to Him? Any way, I'm done for today. Feel free to ask anymore questions. Gets me thinking about stuff I haven't thought about in a while! :)


Ryan and Anna on October 2, 2008 at 7:45 PM said...

Hey, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your willingness to take the time to explain what you believe.

Are you interested in hearing other viewpoints? I love to share what my wife and I believe, especially about some of the topics you touched on in your posts, but I don't want to engage someone in a discussion if they have no interest.

Christian Frugal Mama on October 2, 2008 at 11:57 PM said...

Sure, I love a good talk about Jesus. I do not, however, engage in "debates" or "arguments" as I believe they are often fruitless and a waste of time. But I love when we can openly discuss and mutually benefit. I love being able and ready to "give the reason for the hope" within me and in a blog format, many others get to see it as well!

Ryan and Anna on October 3, 2008 at 7:32 AM said...

What's the difference between debates/arguments and discussions in your mind?

Just want to make sure we're on the same page. :)

Christian Frugal Mama on October 3, 2008 at 9:43 AM said...

LoL. See the reason I say this is because I have gone to the Rock Cafe in Kent since I was saved in 2004 and I have gotten into so many "debates" over religion with people and I don't think any of them truly had an impact for Jesus anyway.

In my mind, I guess the difference is that some people like to argue for the sake of arguing and it has nothing to do with glorifying Jesus. As long as the main point is to edify/uplift each other and Jesus, I'm okay with it. When someone's just trying to make a point and be "right" then I don't bother, because no one really benefits, just someone's ego. :P LoL. I know, a little confusing, but in my mind it makes sense!

Christian Frugal Mama on October 3, 2008 at 2:09 PM said...

I think this might help clarify it more. I think that too often fellow Christians get into agruments with each other over non-salvation issues. As my husband would say, many of these issues aren't worth "breaking fellowship" over. Now, if it is a matter of salvation, then that's another story-they need to know what the bible says the truth is (which has unfortunately happened in our church). But otherwise, we can talk NICELY to each other about our own opinions, hopefully learn something from each other and then not fret about it. I'm sure someday in heaven we'll laugh about it together when we find out the truth. It's always good to seek the truth, but not argue with someone about it. It takes being sensitive to the spirit to tell when a discussion is fruitful or when it is a waste of time.

Ryan and Anna on October 3, 2008 at 3:56 PM said...


I think the distinction makes perfect sense. I hope you find our discussion fruitful.

I have two further questions for you.

1. Do you believe God has given us the freedom to choose what course of action we take in life?

2. If so, do you believe God predetermines the "right" choice in every circumstance, or are there some choices he leaves entirely up to us? For example, when you wake up in the morning, and you are trying to decide whether you want to eat eggs, or pancakes, do you believe there is a right and a wrong answer to that question in God's mind? Or do you believe that God doesn't really care which you choose, as long as you do it in a way that is most glorifying to him?

Holly on October 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM said...

Hey Janeen! As you know, we totally agree with you guys on this matter...(wouldn't have guessed it, would you? hehe) I just wanted to let you know, the Lord bless you for sharing his word and will. Love u girl!


Christian Frugal Mama on October 9, 2008 at 9:26 PM said...

I made the answers to these questions into another post! :)

Chrysee on October 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM said...

Wow. Can you foresee a point where you would not want any more children? After 3? 7? 10? This boggles my mind, as we will not be having children for another 5 or 7 years, and then only two, or one if I get my way. The idea of having as many children as could be naturally produced without any form of birth control is an incredibly frightening concept (to me at least).


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